Whats a safe PE (no WB)

[magnet]

Well i have no wideband and don't have anyway to check actual AFR. MY car is basically a stock car, just bolt-ons and a converter. While reading through some of the Blogs by redhardsupra he said HERE

10. "Undo the GM marketing department's lame attempts to keep the LS1 from a F-body lower output than the Corvette. Setting the Power Enrichment table universally to 1.15 results in a much more sane (than the overprotective stock) 12.7:1 air-fuel ratio."

I also noticed that on a preliminary transmission tune FOFF helped me with he changed the stock PE to 1.2 across the board....So whats safe on a stock-bolton car without a WB??

[S2H]

truth of the matter is that GM factury tune is anywhere from 13.0 ~ 11.5 with their WOT stuff..
and you cant make a guess at safe for WOT without a wideband..
you could look at the narrowband side and just shoot for 950-1000mv...
it will be rich enough to be safe..but theres no stability in the narrowbands and they differ from car to car and day to day...so they are worthless to say that a particular mv reading is a certain AFR from day to day..

I've owned 2 different ls1's...and both were in the 12.5-13.0 range stock on the dyno...even though if you did the tune correctly the math would say that it is otherwise in the PE table...

[magnet]

yes that is why its a little scary doing it without a WB, but rehardsupra really knows his stuff which is why i trusted his hint. I'm thinking i may back off alittle maybe 1.18 or back to FOFF's 1.2

[redhardsupra]

it really depends on the application, on stock cars 1.15 is safe. on big cams it's not. if you're worrying about safety tho, spend the 230bux and get a ntk afx wb (which unlike the LC1 doesn't break 4 times in a row with 2-3 week turnaround time every time it breaks)

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

Buy a wideband, dont make guesses. Nothing is "safe" without a wideband unless you are bone stock. The slightest mods change it.

[magnet]

im going to get a WB sometime but right now i don't have the money for it and i also don't know how to wire it being that i was an idiot and didnt get the EIO

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

There are plenty of posts on here that explain how to wire it up, so yo should be good there. I would hold off on any WOT tuning unless you can get on a dyno with a WB.

[MMGT1]

Personally, as soon as my WB in in the pipes I'm hitting a trusted dyno to "make sure" that I have the sensor reading properly. Then I'm going to trust it.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

I wouldn't assume the dynos are correct either

I know of a few to be incorrect by almost a half a point.

[MMGT1]

Dam, what do you guys do to know your o2 is right?

[Todd157k]

I didn't have a wideband at first for the same reason.. money wasn't just spewing out my rear so it had to wait. I bought a narrow band off ebay.. $40 and read my plugs. As I could see my NB "rich" I'd read the plugs and see just how rich. I dialed in my 100 / 125 / then 150 shot fairly close. When I got my wideband, I found I was really really close. 12.2 on N2o, 12.8 NA. It took a bit longer and definitely a pita, but money to burn just wasn't there. I don't recommend this method... just what i had to do.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

Never go by a narrow band reading. Prime example, my buddys car read 870 mV WOT and he was at a 12.9 AFR, my car was 12.9 at 910 mV.

A calibrated WB is best to use. Just like any other time you do any kind of measurement, you want to use calibrated instrumentation. You also want to regularly replace your sensor based on its time of use and conditions. I have seen a few shops with OLD and uncalibrated WB's.

[bennettrp]

im going to get a WB sometime but right now i don't have the money for it and i also don't know how to wire it being that i was an idiot and didnt get the EIO

Welcome to the club! I thought the initial $500 for HPTuners was gonna fill the bill. Now, after EIO/wideband/tuning class, I'm $1500 into it and still dropping $100 per hour every time I want to get on the dyno.

Isn't this hobby fun?

[Todd157k]

Welcome to the club! I thought the initial $500 for HPTuners was gonna fill the bill. Now, after EIO/wideband/tuning class, I'm $1500 into it and still dropping $100 per hour every time I want to get on the dyno.

Isn't this hobby fun?

oh ya.. and burning up $70 in N2o just 'tuning' is such a thrill. then doing it again, and again, and ....

[S2H]

oh ya.. and burning up $70 in N2o just 'tuning' is such a thrill. then doing it again, and again, and ....

well...you could have spent $200 on an LC1...
and instead you probably spent $400 on Nitrous in your time of read the plugs and try again and read some more and try again..LOL

[stone]

Magnet if you can find a good deal on a wideband I'll help you set it up...it's quite easy once you've dont it once...

[MMGT1]

well...you could have spent $200 on an LC1...
and instead you probably spent $400 on Nitrous in your time of read the plugs and try again and read some more and try again..LOL

I am very guilty of this myself. Put my receipts together a couple of days ago and have about $225 spent in nitrous(re-fills), and just over $500 into the dyno. I finally got the RIGHT wb ordered yesterday. If you go for a WB do your homework and get the right one for you. Like said, I've got about $725 into this and should have just spent the $300 ages ago. With the WB I could have done in ONE trip what has taken 3. Now, in the spring, I'll be doing my own AFR's and saving $200/hr from the dyno(Canada...dyno is not cheap!!)
++++these guys will be able to do so much more to help you with your own WB as well++++

[magnet]

well im looking into a wideband...and would greatly appreciate some help wring it up if and when i do get one. Are any of you local to SWFL?

[mullenh]

If I replace only one O2 with a wide band and leave it in place hooked up to the pcm, does that mean the pcm is getting better info from one side? Would 2 wide bands be better for the pcm?

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

if its set for a narrowband output and your other bank has a new o2 sensor, I dont see an issue with it. I wouldnt do it, but I know others who have.